Uroplatus X-ray

[pakinjak]

Here's something you don't get to see every day, so I thought I would share it with the class.

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pakinjak/miscellaneous/Croppedx-ray.jpg

[Salzy]

That's cool man. I think it's the first one I've seen of a Uroplatus. Which animal is this? Does it have a tail issue, or was is just slightly curled up for the X-ray?

[pakinjak]

It's my female sikorae. Funny thing about the tail- I think it was Luis that told me when they're in really good shape the tail will have a waviness to it. This animal is one of two that have that wave, both are female and both are CB. I didn't expect the bones to be wavy though... So yeah, I dunno.

But lordy, what chalk sacs though, huh? That's Repashy Cal. Plus right there!

[Salzy]

I should try to get to the clinic and get X-rays of my beefy female sameiti to compare. ;)

I wonder why the waviness to the tail would be considered good....I know Luis but he's never mentioned that to me before. I find that when they get the wavy tail, they are getting to be a bit too large, and almost obese, so I have always thought it was excess fat in the tail causing the waves. Obese Uroplatus are said to not be nearly as productive either...which I've always attributed to my sameiti never producing anything for me. :o

What was the reason for the X-rays anyway?

[pakinjak]

I don't know either way, I just remember him saying something along those lines. I'm sure there's a point where it's not good, and I certainly don't know where that line is, and if it's good or bad to have wavy tails . You're certainly right about the obesity and egg production. I'll ask him about it next time we talk and let ya know what he says.

[sarasin]

Thanks for posting the pic, I found the wavy tail interesting too

[pakinjak]

Alright, now I'm home from work and can give some real attention to this. As I've advanced in my keeping, I've been yearning more and more for more detailed discussions so I'm excited about this one. For your viewing pleasure, I took some pics of the tails in question to give us some kind of starting point.

First off, these two are of the female sikorae in the x-ray. I think most will agree that the tail certainly doesn't look like the vertebrae would be bent.

Here is what I mean when I say "wavy".
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pakinjak/Uroplatus/IMG_0623.jpg

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pakinjak/Uroplatus/IMG_0624.jpg

And here's a Fimbriatus female. her tail has always been like this, since I got her and she was 5.5" long.

http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pakinjak/Uroplatus/IMG_0630.jpg


Kyle, are we talking about the same thing to the same degree?

[Salzy]

Yeah, when we are referring to sikorae and sameiti at least. Fimbriatus tails are structured slightly different and you can see that the waviness of that one is more like crumpled paper. I'd say that the waviness of the sikorae is caused more by fatty tissue. At least that is what I've seen in ours. The one that we had with a very wavy tail has passed away on us, but I'll see if I can dig up a photo that shows it well.

[Salzy]

Okay, here is one from Artemis that is not the greatest, but you can see the fatty rolls to her tail. I never took any better photos of it apparently.

[pakinjak]

Kyle, do you have any of a non-wavy tailed sikorae?

Here's an earlier picture of the same animal (from somewhere around Jan. of last year.) You can see she doesn't have the rolls, but does seem to have waves in the making... just not as pronounced. Just for clarity, this is the same animal in the x-ray and in the first two tail pics I've posted.
http://i977.photobucket.com/albums/ae256/pakinjak/Uroplatus%20Sikorae/SIKF100/IMG_0163.jpg

[Salzy]

Okay, got some photos this morning of a few of them for comparison....

adult female U.sikorae
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Gekkonidazed/U%20sikorae/IMG_0113r.jpg

adult male U.sikorae - he eats well and his tail appears to be getting a slight crinkle to it
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Gekkonidazed/U%20sikorae/IMG_0114r.jpg

adult female U.sikorae - getting pretty big...tail is getting slightly wavy and very very thick and stocky
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Gekkonidazed/U%20sikorae/IMG_0117r.jpg

adult male U.sameiti
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Gekkonidazed/U%20sikorae/IMG_0118r.jpg

adult female U.sameiti - this girl is older and has been obese for the past couple of years..currently 40.1 grams today but has been larger
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Gekkonidazed/U%20sikorae/IMG_0122r.jpg

adult male U.sameiti - older male
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Gekkonidazed/U%20sikorae/IMG_0124r.jpg

subadult female U.sikorae - possibly only about 1 year old
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Gekkonidazed/U%20sikorae/IMG_0125r.jpg

subadult male U.sikorae - possibly only about 1 year old
http://i676.photobucket.com/albums/vv126/Gekkonidazed/U%20sikorae/IMG_0128r.jpg

[pakinjak]

Thanks for sharing the pics. So do you have any plan for getting the overweight animals back down to size, and for keeping your animals from getting to heavy in the future?

[OctagonGecko729]

Most people just reduce the amount of feeders. Obesity is a real problem with Pietschmanni females but there really isnt any information (shocker) on whats obese and what is normal weight. I'm not sure if this applies to reptiles but for mammals reducing the amount of food isnt a good way to lose weight. When mammals dont eat for a while they create a lot of lypo enzymes which break down fat and store it.

So just about the worst thing you could do to try to lose weight would be to eat 1 meal every two days with a high fat content. Those lypo enzymes will take the first meal and store as much fat on the mammals as possible as a survival adaptation.

I've tried to bring my pietschmanni female's weight down a bit by adding more feeders but smaller sized ones. This way she is much more active and is keeping her metabolism up. Since most folks have the most success breeding pietschmanni in pairs, its pretty hard to manage the weight of a female as almost all females eat way more often then males.

[T-ReXx]

I can't believe I didn't notice that tail before.

I think you're right on the money; she's overweight. There's a specific part in the sikorae section of the Uroplatus bible talking about how sikorae are such voracious feeders they are prone to obesity. And when they get overweight extra fat is stored in the tail. Completely slipped my mind before. A couple years ago I saw a cb male that was obese, and his tail looked like it had pockets of air in it. It was more extreme than in the animals pictured here, but it definitely fits the description.

[sakasuvaki]

Okay, got some photos this morning of a few of them for comparison....

Cool pics, Kyle.

Maybe we should take some pics of each of our Uroplatus' tail. I've always taken notice to how different each of their tails were including same species.

[pakinjak]

And I'd also like to see if a regrown tail will get wavy too.

Kyle, now that I understand what you're saying a bit more, what Luis said makes more sense to me- we were talking about the fimbriatus whose tail pic I shared in this thread. And you're absolutely right, sikorae and fimbriatus tails are built very differently.

I haven't forgotten that you asked why I had the x-ray done, but it's a long story and I'll try to share it tonight. But I will say this... I think it's going to be one of the rare cases where a Uroplatus starts to slide downhill and then comes back. She seems to be doing fine, and after all the tests and lovin' I've given her, I think she's just fat.

Now to try and fix it...

[Chris L]

Kevin thanks for sharing the pic. It is awesome to see the bone structure Of these.
Again thanks for sharing.

[mttycaz85]

yeah very interesting stuff! maybe try roaches instead of crickets crickets have alot of I believe

[pakinjak]

So the girl has been separated from her boy for a while now. I've been reducing the numbers and sizes of feeders given to her and I hope I'll see some improvement. Sucks that there isn't any info to be had about obese uroplatus, maybe we're breaking new ground here. :) Sure, I've read that they can get fat, but how about a little help on how to get them NOT fat?

Anyway, I weighed her this morning and she's down 3g to 27g. There's not really any noticeable difference in her build though. The tail is still wavy, her body is pretty round, and her chalk sacs are still HUGE. Honestly, I'm not very hopeful that she'll slim down. I have the feeling I'm just screwed...

as if it weren't bad enough that uros are hard to keep healthy, now I have to put one in a diet? For cryin' out loud!

[mttycaz85]

lol yeah you just cant win! before you know it we'll have to start talking our uros out for walks

[TheMajik]

Maybe the tails are curvy to be able to support such a wide tail?..