Virgin chahoua laying eggs?

[Gecko Brothel]

I was wondering if this is common with Chahoua's? I have 2 females (20 months old) that have been housed together and I decided to just recently bred them. After weighing them, I decided to just bred the one female with our male as the other female weighed less then the other one.
I placed the male with the one female and moved the other female to the unoccupied male's tank.
Well, the female that was never with a male and was seemingly losing weight, we started to handfeed her to see what was up. Upon close examining, to my surprise, I found two eggs that was glued together in the corner of the tank.The time frame here is 3 weeks.
She has since started to eat again and is putting some weight back on. Why would a female lay eggs if she wasn't with a male? The one with the male isn't showing signs of being gravid.......... Anyone have this happen to them?
Hopefully someone has an answer.
Betty

[mike]

It's common with Rhacodactylus and may be common with other Geckos as well. I often have lone females that lay eggs, I think a major part of it is simply showing that they are able to reproduce and they lay the infertile eggs. It isn't uncommon at all it is actually pretty typical behavior for sexually mature females.

[Gecko Brothel]

I am a breeder of cresties and find that it can happen but not usually with virgins. I guess what surprised me is that this female seemed to me not at a good weight to breed her (she was showing only 45 grams while the other girl was 52). I really didn't think first time breeders would drop eggs especially if they were showing not at ideal weight. So I guess my question would be, should I put her with the male because if she is giving eggs, at least they might be good or do you think those are the only eggs she will lay?
Betty

[mike]

They aren't the only eggs she will lay, but if you were concerned about her weight you should definitely get her up to an acceptable breeding weight before introducing her to a male.

Also, I had a virgin female Crested drop eggs a couple of weeks ago, I was surprised too, but it can happen.

[Gecko Brothel]

This is my first year with chahoua's so I was really surprised to see that she had laid eggs. I am definitely keeping her by herself and will cross my fingers hoping that she doesn't lay anymore, or at least until I feel she is an acceptable weight. Thanks so much for putting my mind at ease.
Betty

[mike]

She won't just continually lay them back to back, at least mine don't, it's generally pretty spread out when my females drop eggs it's definitely not on a regular basis.

[MercZ]

I have recently started breeding Mainland Chahouas and the answer to your questions as far as why she started laying eggs. Basically the same thing I had happen with me female that is 4 yrs old and never been with a male. She had never dropped an egg in her life but as soon as she was housed with a male she dropped eggs within 3 weeks. The male had yet to mate with her as far as I can tell the first time around but with Chahouas it seems they need the scent possibily put off by male chahouas to begin there egg production and want to begin breeding.

[mike]

Are you sure they didn't breed, because 3 weeks after being introduced with a male is right about the time it would take her to produce fertile eggs, were the eggs she dropped fertile or infertile? are you incubating them?

[MercZ]

I dont belive the eggs were fertile and I am not incubating them due to them not being fully produced. Check out my post regarding the dud eggs being dropped. B/c they were her first she did not produce up to par and the reason I believe she even started was by being housed with the male. Since she has dropped the first she has rapidly started to gain weight again and I have noticed this time them being together much more and noisy at night. Thats why I believe the scent of the male can jump start the chahouas drive due to what gecko brothel is experiencing. I also had some info from Rich (Pet'Acular Exotic) regarding this and thats what he has had happen in the past with chahouas and expected from this female.

[mike]

Yea, from what I have read in the past a female dropping infertile eggs is basically a sign that she is at a point where she is capable of reproducing successfuly so it probably is intended to be a sign for any potential mates, or at the very least a sign for us so we can give them a mate :D

[MercZ]

Yeah, I am very excited and hopeing she will give me at least 2 good clutchs this season as she just started. However chahouas are known to be hard predictors when it comes to breeding so you never know. Keeping fingers crossed as she should produce amazing offspring.
Good luck Gecko Brothel hopefully your females will do so as well.

[sciteacher]

Probably don't have to say this, but remember there's a big difference between "being able to produce eggs" and "being ready to produce eggs". Think of humans... being able to have a b.aby at 13 or 14 years of age doesn't mean it's a healthy thing to do so. For the long term health of the animal, I'd wait until it was at a weight and age that I was confident that it was in the best interest of the animal's long term health. While it's not unusual for an animal to drop dud eggs when they reach reproductive age, it would be quite unusual for them to continue to drop duds on a regular basis without being in the presence of a male.

Gary

[Gecko Brothel]

That was the reason why I decided not to bred her as I felt she was not at an ideal weight. I still feel the same way, so I will be keeping her separate from the male until next year.
By the sounds of why she started producing was from me taking the male out of his tank and placing him with the one female, I removed the smaller female out and placed her in his tank..........it sounds like the scent of the male was all it took for her to start producing. :)
I am in no rush, my first and foremost concern is the health of the gecko.
Betty

[sciteacher]

That was the reason why I decided not to bred her as I felt she was not at an ideal weight. I still feel the same way, so I will be keeping her separate from the male until next year.

...I am in no rush, my first and foremost concern is the health of the gecko.
Betty

I didn't mean to imply that you were being irresponsible in any way. It's obvious from your previous posts that you had taken every step possible to prevent premature breeding and that you were just concerned that this had happened in spite of your best efforts. I was referring more to another post which stated that dropping dud eggs was a sign to the breeder that the female was ready to breed.

Gary

[Gecko Brothel]

I didn't take it as that either. I was just making sure everyone understood that I was trying to prevent her from breeding and then she drops eggs! I have had no experience with chahoua's as this is my first year of breeding them. This one has always been a bit odd as it loves ****food and doesn't like crickets which is the opposite to what they should eat. So, really weight wise, she is a bit slower at gaining as I wished she would eat more crickets like the other female.
Betty

[PET'acular EXOTICS]

My experience with both localities of R.chahoua is that they reach sexual maturity at the age of 18 months, but should not be used for breeding until at least 2 years of age. I believe the reason your female started to produce infertile eggs is a combination of things including her age, the smell of the male's cage due to his marking of his territory with his phemoral pores, and the fact that the male was probably vocalizing to the females about his intentions, if of course they were in ear shot of each other. The fact that R.chahoua produce 2 calcified eggs in a normal clutch requires the female to devote a large amount of internal resources to the production of eggs, and young females who have not finished their rapid growth spurt in the first 24 months of life can have metobolic problems that manifest themselves as an extreme loss of weight and strength. I have used liquid Bone-aid from T-Rex to supplement the loss of calcium in the bloodstream. I give 3 or 4 drops to a female daily until a see a rapid improvement in the strength, or up to 10 days, which ever comes first. I would especially recommend this if in the future you find one of your females loosing weight rapidly due to the fact that she is gravid or if she has just laid some eggs and is showing some weakness in her normal climbing and walking behaviour. The good news is that this usually does not repeat itself if the diet is proper and the female is given a rest and the time to finish maturing. Keeping male and female R.chahoua in separate rooms until they are over 2 years of age will also help to keep them from making contact with each other prematurely.
I hope this helpful.

Rich Spekner