Home fecal exams for Entamoeba?

[ihasgecko]

I am very interested in starting an in house lab for detecting Entamoeba virus in my geckos. I have heard another breeder say she uses a microscope to examine fecal samples to see if the virus is present. I am wondering what type of microscope i would need to do this and also what the virus looks like? Any help would be greatly appreciated on this topic, I would like to gear up asap so i can start researching all my gecko poop lol.. If it shows in my colony again i would like to try and take samples through out treatment to see the rates at which the virus is eliminated. It would also be interesting to randomly test animals who are healthy and see if it ever pops up in those healthy animals..

[Salzy]

There used to be an amazing article that had pictures and everything dealing with Entamoeba. I see now that the link is dead, and I can't find it anywhere else again.

Here is the thread from a long time ago....http://www.forums.repashy.com/disease-disorders/210-weight-loss-start-here.html?highlight=entamoeba+invadens

Allen, wasn't this under one of the banner tabs on this website at one time? I could have swore that it was something easy to find here for reference.

[sciteacher]

Just to be clear, entamoeba isn't a virus. If it was, you'd have absolutely no luck seeing it under a microscope. Even it was a bacteria, you'd be hard pressed to find and identify it visually. It is however, a protozoan, and should be large enough to spot with a decent microscope and a trained eye, although I haven't myself tried.

Gary

[ihasgecko]

sorry about the virus mixup i wrote that in a hurry and should have been more careful about my wording.. thanks Salzy i'll take a look into that forum. Gary what would you consider a decent microscope? thanks

[Allen Repashy]

the article is here Repashy Ventures - Retail Store - Resources (http://store.repashy.com/retail/index.php?target=categories&category_id=219)

[ihasgecko]

Thanks for the link Allen. I see in that article Randy was able to identify Entamoeba invadins in the tissue. And i have read that you should be able to detect Entamoeba in fecal smears. I am curious if anyone does this at home? If so what kind of equipment do you use? thanks,

[ihasgecko]

Ok so i found the answer to my question partially so i'll post so others who are interested can see. To see nematodes and nematode eggs you need 100x magnification. To see protozoa you need a 400x magnification.

[Salzy]

Not too many people have their own equipment to do this sort of thing. I'd love to do it as well, but I don't have a microscrope or slides or anything like that. A good microscope isn't cheap...and I'd much rather spend my money on another gecko from a reputable source that has a low chance of having Entamoeba. ;) :D

Thanks for the link Allen. I see you have been moving some things around and I couldn't locate it this morning.

[Gecko Ranch]

Easier yet just to do the E. Fix treatment once a year as a prophylactic measure if you do any breeding. It is very easy on healthy geckos!

[ihasgecko]

I dose my colony as recommended. I am not really doing this out of necessity. I am more curious than anything. I would like to test new additions to my colony even though I dose new additions preventatively. As i stated above I am more interested in actually observing the treatment process under microscope. It would also be interesting to test known healthy geckos to verify that there is no E. invaders present to test the theory that they can become infected randomly. I am curious to find out why with a closed colony that is treated yearly do people still have outbreaks. These are all reasons i would like to do this, more so to understand why outbreaks happen rather than treat and don't ask questions.

[Sarah Gilpin]

It would also be interesting to test known healthy geckos to verify that there is no E. invaders present to test the theory that they can become infected randomly.

I think it is fine that you want to do this, and can understand your curiosity. However, as with many other internal parasites, they will not always show through on a fecal smear or flotation. Many parasites, especially protozoan parasites can lie dormant for quite awhile. The animal may not begin to show clinical signs until it becomes stressed or its immune system is suppressed. Just something to keep in mind when you are testing the stools....

I'm interested to see what results you end up with. Keep us posted!

[ihasgecko]

Thanks Sarah, thats the sort of info i really appreciate and wanted out of starting this thread. I had read something similar to what you said in an earlier link to a thread by Salzy. In that thread Dr. Alan stated a similar comment but i still fully plan on doing this even though it might not be the best preventative tool, it will still be interesting. I will be purchasing a microscope that can be linked to a computer to take screen shots so when it arrives and i get some interesting slides i will take some screen shots and post.

[Gecko Ranch]

I dose my colony as recommended. I am not really doing this out of necessity. I am more curious than anything. I would like to test new additions to my colony even though I dose new additions preventatively. As i stated above I am more interested in actually observing the treatment process under microscope. It would also be interesting to test known healthy geckos to verify that there is no E. invaders present to test the theory that they can become infected randomly. I am curious to find out why with a closed colony that is treated yearly do people still have outbreaks. These are all reasons i would like to do this, more so to understand why outbreaks happen rather than treat and don't ask questions.

A true closed colony is very hard to attain. This is because of cross-contamination that can occur in a plethora of methods. If you work with other species there are parasites in common, such as pinworms. Here we are talking about Entamoeba, and that is possible to spread to through the obvious methods of introducing new individuals to your colony, having people come over unknowingly contamined by their specimens, a trip to the reptile show and get contaminated there, it goes on and on. It does not matter either if they do not pick up your geckos. If they touch anything you touch, such as a doorknob or counter, that is a possible contamination vector.

My point is, you can never be too cautious, or think about ways you can protect your geckos. ;)